Faced with declining readership, is it about time for the current editor of artforum to be replaced by someone who has vision? vi·sion·ing, beyond, top ten lists, friends/lovers, fashion, traveling retrospectives, tombstone ads and “openings".
(I do like the website and talkback.) ><:>==O
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by BPrevidi, 07.10.02 04:45 pm
I like "openings".
What's the problem with that section?
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.10.02 05:09 pm
"Bring out the Hellman's and bring out the best."
:->
by mathew16, 07.11.02 02:52 am
bp-
“Openings” Junior High School Newspaper.
There are some 7th graders doing wonderful but not mature work and we the 9th grade senior editors here at artforum want to cast light on that fact.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by monkchild, 07.11.02 04:17 am
Please don't listen to mathew16. Top-ten lists, gossip, fashion, travelling, ads is what we want. We go to the library for the boring stuff.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by BPrevidi, 07.11.02 09:07 am
So no one at the beginning of their career is worthy of one or two pages of press in a magazine?
I am in total disagreement with you. Jeff Burton, Alexei Hay and Vincent Fecteau were all "Openings" artists and their out-of-the-gate shows were very deserving of the mentions they received.
I fear that Puck is dead, — it is so long
Since men last saw him;— dead with all the rest
Of that sweet elfin crew that made their nest
In hollow nuts, where hazels sing their song;
Dead and for ever, like the antique throng
The elves replaced: the Dryad that you guess'd
Behind the leaves; the Naiad weed-bedress'd
The leaf-ear'd Faun that loved to lead you wrong.
Tell me, thou hopping Robin, hast thou met
A little man, no bigger than thyself,
Whom they call Puck, where woodland bells are wet?
Tell me, thou Wood-Mouse, hast thou seen an elf
Whom they call Puck, and is he seated yet,
Capp'd with a snail-shell, on his mushroom shelf?
ii
The Robin gave three hops, and chirp'd, and said:
'Yes, I knew Puck, and loved him; though I trow
He mimick'd oft my whistle, chuckling low;
Yes I knew cousin Puck; but he is dead
We found him lying on his mushroom bed —
The Wren and I,— half covr'd up with snow,
As we were hopping where the berries grow,
We think he died of cold. Ay, Puck is fled.'
And then the Wood-Mouse said: 'We made the Mole
Dig him a little grave beneath the moss,
And four big Dormice placed him in the hole.
The Squirrel made with sticks a little cross;
Puck was a Christian elf, and had a soul;
And all we velvet jackets mourn his loss.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.11.02 10:52 am
"Feel the Velvet."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by thingsthatgo, 07.11.02 10:57 am
Joseph how can we do that? I like it!
BP the artists you mention are they not timely, of this moment? Hardly a conceptual experimental opening—thinking.
Matonesix
You know visioning is not blinking—to get beyond or simply outside its end is where I had thought your thoughts lay. It is very complex if you want to argue someone's back x-ray, layered over someone's back x-ray.
Well I ate well tonight after a heavy typhoon, so with respect:
It is an age old 'mondo', he who bets on the loser better have a good tongue?
The retort—out of step any tongue has a chance.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by BPrevidi, 07.11.02 12:18 pm
TTG—
They may be of-the-moment now, but they weren't by any means when they showed up in "Openings" (I think Burton and Fecteau were mentioned 5+ years ago)
Is it so terrible to give a deserving young artist a nod in the mainstream press? I hope not.
Matt16:
Could it be that the criticism of "Openings" is actually mid-career resentment at not having been noticed earlier? Feelings of entitlement run deep in the world of art.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by mathew16, 07.11.02 01:57 pm
You guys need to look at the big picture.
The big picture is the magazine needs a new editor and you people focus only on “openings”
Are you clowns telling me you buy this magazine, read the ads and think everything is just fine the way it is.
I don’t think so.
I am all for the work of original artists being reviewed or represented in a publication, but “openings” is a trite phony, limited and attempts to separate young artists from the Peter Halleys and brice mardens of the world.
We are all made of the same space stuff, so we should be in the mix together.
Also why do they not have a complete galleries directory listing shows in major cities each month?
I think the answer is they want to keep squeezing money out of galleries to buy tombstone ads each month.
Joseph, I am sure you would agree with me that this alone is another
Way of making money off the backs of artists.
Once you get rid of the ads there is not much to read or to look at.
I have great issues of artforum from the 60’s and 70’s, which are treasure to look at, but the last 15 years or so Artforum sucks it is getting closer to art news and art in America with every issue.
Top ten lists?
Jesus.
Oh BP
My first show when I was just a child was reviewed in artforum.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by Kubrick, 07.11.02 02:48 pm
m16, don't be a dummy and fire your wad all over the place like the current prez in the white house. it's the galleries that clean up. the art mags just get by even as they give the artists the recognition and fame that makes them rich. without artforum, where would you turn? frieze is very uneven. art news? well, let's read about the 10 biggest spending collectors. come'on. you're clearly not reading. if you want to complain, make it specific. otherwise, you're just shooting off you're little m16, m16.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by all i got was this lousy, 07.11.02 03:32 pm
According to the book I recently finished a major draw to New York for Artforum was the galleries having money to advertise- a good thing no? The ads have always been an integral part of the publications survival (I would really worry when you see ads for Coke and Nike).
Of course 60 –70's they also had ideals, drives beyond the market - ‘to provide information and intent', writers with genuine inquiry – you can't fake the value of values. Some of the best articles I have ever read in my life were published in that time frame. The writers really had something going on – if not just between each other. It's funny at one point it mentions ‘imagining art students picking up and dusting off copies of the magazine and studying them'. For me the dialogue really serves to enrich the experience of viewing that Art - so on a very personal level something about it really did work.
A high tide floats all ships. The state of the ads are a symptom of the anemic state of the art world right now. Worrying about the surface stuff is a prosaic solution. What everything needs right now is a serious critical shakedown beyond personal politics and market place speculation although I suppose that has always been a big part of it as well.
How do you have standards with this statement
"We are all made of the same space stuff, so we should be in the mix together"
I really don't think all is =
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by BPrevidi, 07.11.02 03:38 pm
Matt,
You're the one who singled out "openings".
I simply stated that it's the only part of the magazine I think holds value and provides young artists with a little, teeny bit of real estate they might not have received otherwise.
If you don't like the magazine you should boycott its advertisers. Never eat at The Odeon, never buy a Schnabel from Pace, never go to the MoMA.
You'll show them!
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by crash, 07.11.02 04:04 pm
so why is 'top ten' so bad?
conceivably, it could be good
for example - you have all your smart friends or people who you admire write up ten of their favorite influences, books, records, things, what-have-you
wouldn't that be gratifying?
so why does top ten fail?
how could it work?
this goes out to everyone
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by BPrevidi, 07.11.02 04:13 pm
Is it broken?
I know/respect/am interested in some of the people they've asked to do the Top 10. As a result, I am interested in knowing their choices of what's piqued their interest lately.
I believe that's the idea and it seems to be working just fine.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.11.02 04:31 pm
"The penalty of leadership."
Everything seems to be working just fine
by mathew16, 07.11.02 04:57 pm
Kubrick-you write so inelegantly, with your petty talk of politics here and there.
The point I am making BIG PICTURE
When one Editor (who has no vision) has so much control for a relative long period of time it ends up stifling the dialogue.
Because of his/her allegiance to friends/lovers
unmature concepts, we get too thin copy about the same suspects, or worse, dribble about Hollywood, fashion and top ten lists.
Do we really need to know what Peter Halley thinks of Gerhard Richter?
Jerry Saltz says “Krens must go’. He took a long look at the situation over there and he realized the problem was at the top.
The problem in art is not with artists but with the structure/control of the venue for the work and the debate.
I know a lot of artists who do not write here at talkback and they all know and think the editor of artforum is a joke, but would they say that in public?
I find that web based magazines such as Artnet, BTA, DNP or even sigh newsgrist and Genius 2000 have the dialogue conversing in the right direction.
You guys just don’t like to have the boat rocked, your blind faith is someone’s power
all i got was this lousy-
“What everything needs right now is a serious critical shakedown.”
mathew16- ”Before the end of the year there will be a new editor at Artforum”.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by mathew16, 07.11.02 05:09 pm
Kubrick-"without artforum, where would you turn?"
What a stupid cred·u·lous
remark.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.11.02 05:30 pm
If you want to impress someone, put him on your Black list."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by BPrevidi, 07.11.02 05:59 pm
matt16,
What you're stating as fact is really only your opinion, something to which you are entitled. Your assertation that the concepts at AF are "unmature" (sic) and that the copy is too thin is your opinion, and I think many would concur.
But accusing the editor of only showing/publishing lovers and friends is not so problematic (at least for me).
Hell, if I want to sleep my way to the top, I sure am glad there's a vehicle like Artforum that can get me into the fast lane.
If I'm looking to get a date, should I leave my phone number here?
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by Kubrick, 07.11.02 06:02 pm
you didn't answer the question, did you? let's see you try? i asked it in good faith. let's see if you can answer it in good faith.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by teisha, 07.11.02 06:10 pm
Bravo:
mathew16
Finally someone points out the obvious at artforum.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by Kubrick, 07.11.02 06:13 pm
Hmm, artnet? well, it's nice to look at the pictures and all, but i wonder why you don't complain that artnet is basically the society page of the art world. Or that Charlie Finch treats the art world as a big frathouse.
seems like you're too busy looking at the ads and you don't read the magazine. i think there's lots of interesting things to read in it, for example, the articles on small magazines, the thing on gene swenson, or the interview with Mike Kelley a couple of months ago. you're going to tell me that artnet is more interesting than mike kelley right. yeah, right!
one thing i'll say for AF—they don't jump for every minitrend that comes and goes like the breeze from your toilet.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.11.02 06:20 pm
"I'm Margie. Fly me."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by teisha, 07.11.02 06:46 pm
eyes wide shut again huh kubrick?
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by Joseph Frankly McElroy, 07.11.02 10:53 pm
Actually M16 is right on this one. The mag exists to make money for itself, perhaps help the ad buyers. Any residual value is by accident and I am sure snuck into the mix by some few higher minded. However, probably snuffed all the time by budget ax - what sells- sells.
The website and talkback are best things about artforum now. Mag is boring.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by cutup, 07.12.02 12:26 am
Artforum is better now and more readable than it has ever been. The Top Ten , Openings, Hotlist, Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring previews gives me a chance to see new work and who is showing where.
There is also less convoluted writing now than in the past.
The '70's Arforum under Masheck and Kozloff published some seminal articles, some of which were written by artists such as Robert Morris. Artforum then was not as "entertaining" as it is now. But I like the entertainment. Then It was deadly serious.
Like BP, I enjoy reading the choices of some of the Top Ten contributors and have followed up on some of the web sites that were mentioned.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by Joseph Frankly McElroy, 07.12.02 07:35 am
I say tomato
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by thingsthatgo, 07.12.02 10:21 am
What I am thinking is that the feel good reviews are not enough today to send us serendipitously back to top-buy print copy. There is something to it that a feel easy publication such as artforum cannot compete with the food of Internet communication. If I am interested in a particular article, and that usually relates only to trend, to keep in touch, as I usually don't—often the death of a artist, unless you want to born from print, there is more potential with those you (go) find yourself around, or I can visit any number of resources and do the unforgivable, yes even here in Tokyo. I find…too much time spend in the third person, winds up making the fourth. And that feels a very one sad dimension.
If I am interested in some work I will make an effort to communicate directly, and those not on loaded bases usually have appearance online, and appreciate. We communicate, and if there is some wind, and as I can tolerate cheap plane flights, I can get to the direct source, or we can do local exhibition swaps.
So what I am thinking—is…
Of course it is important I, anyone here, if they have the mind to it, get in print—lets hope it works itself out so, and is still here when we do.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.12.02 10:56 am
"I dreamed I went shopping in my Maidenform bra."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by Kubrick, 07.12.02 11:07 am
teisha: my comments were directed to matthew16. sorry if that was confusing. Well, m16, you still didn't answer my question.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by d2nt8211, 07.12.02 02:50 pm
I think it would be nice to have a new editor. A fresh breeze, like someone opened the window. Not that there's anything wrong with the magazine now, I enjoy the articles and regular columns.
I was interested and wondering how you guys got Rosalind Krauss, who left Artforum because of the direction it was taking (ie. tombstone ads), to write for this issue? Did you pay her a huge amount of money?
To be nobody-but-yourself
by mathew16, 07.12.02 02:52 pm
I just woke up.
teisha,
Joseph Frankly McElroy, thingsthatgo, and tagent I enjoy what you people have to say, thanks.
In Buckminster Fuller book Critical Path,
He writes of e.e.cummings
“He wrote a piece called “A poets Advice’,
which I feel elucidates why “little I,” fifty-three years ago at age thirty-two, jettisoned all that I had ever been taught to believe and proceeded thereafter to reason and act only on the basis of direct personal experience. “
A poets Advice
A poet is somebody who feels, and who expresses his feelings through words.
This may sound easy. It isn’t.
A lot of people think or believe or know they feel—but that’s thinking or believing or knowing; not feeling. And poetry is feeling—not knowing or believing or thinking.
Almost anybody can learn to think or believe or know, but not a single human being can be taught to feel. Why? Because whenever you think or you believe or you know, you’re a lot of other people: but the moment you feel, you’re nobody-but-yourself.
To be nobody-but-yourself—in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else—means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
As for expressing nobody-but-yourself in words, that means working just a little harder than anybody who isn’t a poet can imagine. Why? Because nothing is quite as easy as using words like somebody else. We all of us do exactly this nearly all of the time—and whenever we do it, we are not poets.
If, at the end of your first ten or fifteen years of fighting and working and feeling, you find you’ve written one line of one poem, you’ll be very lucky indeed.
And so my advice to all young people who wish to become poets: do something easy, like learning to blow up the world—unless you’re not only willing, but glad, to feel and work and fight till you die.
Does this sound dismal? It isn’t.
It’s the most wonderful life on earth
Or so I feel.
e.e.cummings
kubrick, bp, the editor, ect,
I charge $666 an hour.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.12.02 02:58 pm
"Lipton's gets into more hot water than anything."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by BPrevidi, 07.12.02 03:00 pm
Matt,
The view from here is quite nice.
Thanks for placing me on the other side.
Kubrick, wanna grab a Margarita? They're free over here in the land of tombstone ads and nepotism.
Rave on!
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.12.02 03:06 pm
"Roar, Boys, Roar
It tastes like more
What a flavor
Zippity-zow - its grand - and HOW."
___________________________________
by mathew16, 07.12.02 03:11 pm
you know BPrevidi alcohol makes you Dumb @ dumber
pEaCe @OuT
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by maxherman, 07.12.02 07:08 pm
Hey I like that Buck Fuller mention, whom a friend (not jfm) of mine calls "Backhoe Fillerin" sometimes for no reason.
NN is good on Fuller, she calls herself "the smallest fullerene," a walnut-buster for ye at or around NN's eusocial.com.
My friend also sometimes translates (including Bayesian error-terms o' course) "religion" as "really going on," which someone else said sorta. You know it's weird but my hardest critics say I'm a religious freak. Either way, enjoy my band Shlagel's lovely music at www.geocities.com/shlaglus if it's not overlimit. Cut and paste only.
Troy Herman
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by maxherman, 07.12.02 07:10 pm
typo
music is at
www.geocities.com/shlagelus
Max
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.12.02 08:51 pm
"Bayer works wonders."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by zxcvbnm, 07.13.02 01:07 am
I don't like young artists.
Their work is silly and self important.
but of course art is no good.
post modernism is a blot.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.13.02 12:45 pm
"Where will you be when your laxative starts to work?"
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by MargaretHelen, 07.13.02 07:39 pm
A new Artforum editor would be just the ticket. The Top Ten Lists, little "best" lists and the focus on personality have turned it into quite the rag.
Although—it seems Artforum could never sink to the level of Frieze under NY editor Amanda Sharp. Dark days indeed at Frieze.
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by maxherman, 07.13.02 08:56 pm
I judge the performance of most systems by their ability to integrate Genius 2000 and things like it. I'm insane that way, but who's to say even a bird migrating every year is sane?
I guess I can see g2k at genius2000.net infusing Artforum more than say Tina's Talk, which makes me more ill than almost anything I can think of.
"A tsunami sinks all ships."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by susanh, 07.13.02 10:38 pm
Margaret Helen, are you still in Florida? Recommend the best museums/galleries please, thank you...susanh
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by marc garrett, 07.13.02 10:42 pm
matt (even though he dissed my sleazy art piece & did not recognise furtherfield's independence) - is right.
There needs to be vision behind the editorial that tries to venture further than art - ad's. Art has shifted away from institutional remits, moving into new territories by d.i.y strategists. People who are exploring new ways of creating work via the process of life, moving away from rules that were once handed down from critics, galleries & colleges. The main energy shift is coming from many groups who are forming amazing projects that have originally been residing on the net. Pirate radio, bbs, networking, personal politique, global dialogue; that reaches further than culturalized dominance. Art is changing right now, and it will soon not be known as art. Whatever it is known as in the future, it will be more exciting, free from snobbery and hopefully less scared of being vulnerable & intuitive.
marc garrett
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by maxherman, 07.13.02 11:45 pm
At this point I have to be frank: Marc Garrett is one of my cyber aliases or as we say "net personae." He does not exist. Furtherfield.org is a fully-owned offshore entity under the Genius 2000 Group LLC. Ruth Catlow is the love of my life, not Marc's.
I achingly apologize for the deception and all future statements will reflect this adjusted balance in black and white.
Max Herman
genius2000.net
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by tagent, 07.13.02 11:48 pm
"Seeing is Believing."
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by susanh, 07.14.02 01:57 am
Geez Max! Are you telling the truth now? In any case, I thought the sleaze piece was ugly...now write something worthwhile...love, susanh.
-max are you a concert promoter? - osho emax is not emarc
i got some negatives laying around here of 'teardrop explodes'
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Re: New editor for Artforum?
by maxherman, 07.14.02 04:10 am
Hello matt16, I'm partial to matt25:14-30, however, I sense a question from osho whether I am a concert promoter—far from it, I'm a hard-gigging local drummer here in Minneapolis MN.
I also songwrite: "Sugar In Your Gas Tank," "Hard Evidence," "Call It A Business," and "Where Does It Come Down" are probably my personal most mature pieces at age 32.
These songs are out and among the g2kognoscenti, well-received to be frank, as well as some twenty more originals by my band Shlagel including "Just Roll," "Afterburning," "Mike Lee's Redemption," "Whistler [based on JS Bach's Mein Effenfreud Mein Herr]," "Big Flat Feet," "True Character," "Week," "Loring Park Special," "Springtime Song," "BUA," "Two Tickets To Midnight," "Ode To A Nightincane," "Goes To Show," "Completely Frank," and I forget the rest.
We're jacked up and ready to gig jba. For covers we do "What Goes On," "Spirit Of Radio," "Stay," "Going Underground," "White Room," "As We Go Up We Go Down," "NIB," and very many mainstream covers like "Nightclub Jitters" and "Ain't Misbehavin'." Pas de merde for ye of little French.
I also did some architecture that Ralph Rapson said was significant and important, but needed a more seductive and professional media kit to get into the archmags, i.e. a $5K model and glossies. (Go ahead and ask him, before he punches out!) I been working on pickup lines but who has time for the dunces? Not Yojimbo, no way.
I don't have a bio or anything out, just a wandering mist or fumos, maybe Artforum should do me—harder und harder und harder und harder und harder und harder und harder und harder.