<nettime> Help

El dom., 4 nov 2018 8:21 p. m., <nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org> escribió:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Complexity and nostalgia (Hoofd, I.M. (Ingrid))
2. Does Nettime have a code of conduct, policies or other
governance mechanisms? (Ana Ulin)
3. Ash Sarkar video (Brian Holmes)

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 07:00:59 +0000
From: "Hoofd, I.M. (Ingrid)" <I.M.Hoofd@uu.nl>
To: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" <nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Complexity and nostalgia
Message-ID:
<7938E6AFF79C1A498FFF683C7B09AB0A2686D7B8@WP0045.soliscom.uu.nl" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">7938E6AFF79C1A498FFF683C7B09AB0A2686D7B8@WP0045.soliscom.uu.nl>
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Hi folks,

Lurker here who almost climbed into her pen after many years of silence to respond to A.B.s BS and then decided that he's not worth responding too - plus others responded so eloquently already (many thanks Alice, Ian, Florian and Nina for your excellent remarks!)

On a related and slightly selfish note, I've been looking for some texts that discuss the intersection of capitalism/patriarchy/colonialism/racism/technology for a reading group of artists/academics. Have read Sylvia Federici's work which is good but not quite satisfying. Anyone any suggestions? :-)

Cheers, Ingrid.

Sent from my HTC

----- Reply message -----
From: "Nina Tempor?r" <nina-temp@gmx.de>
To: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" <nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: <nettime> Complexity and nostalgia
Date: Sun, Nov 4, 2018 00:36

Wow, nettime?s very own James Damore moment -
And hardly anyone calls him out.

I cannot believe how easily so many people here allowed A.B. to intellectually-click-bait
them into a discussion just because he whispered the magic words ?Marx? and ?class?,
And willingly delivered him material to refine his language for his pseudo-philosophical
White male ?ngst-driven project,
Even after he had already lashed out in a dangerously generalized way against academia,
After he had already generally denounced identity politics as self-pity and whining, after he
Had claimed gender & race as having no social realities, after he had judged the welfare
State as an infantilization of society and, on top of all, had totally ridiculously indulged himself
In a teenage-like invention rage of cock-culture-worshipping neologisms that he obviously enjoys
To decorate his little short-20th-Century binary phantasy land with.

While a few of the answers with serious reactions to the classism question were really a
Pleasure to read and very much worth considering under different premises, I don?t understand
why almost nobody here (except for Alice, Ian, and Florian - thanks for your interventions) did see
The contradiction that the very same people he claims to be wanting to work with in that new class
War he dreams of, get insulted so badly and in a hierarchy-reproducing manner, that a future
Cooperation is being boycotted before it has even started.

Is that really only a sad lack of strategic thinking? Or not rather revealing how inclusive his
New class war phantasy actually is, and whose perspective he expects to be adopted as
Conceptual lead?

There is a big difference between disagreement and lashing out in a way that reveals absolute
Entitlement, and even worse: the assumption to be ?safe? when stating such stuff in a place
Like nettime mailing list.

It?s so tiring to be forced to point out, once more, that entitlement is key in this problematic:

While Alexander and his followers have very well understood that investing into digital literacy
Is an absolute necessity if they want to survive in these times, any knowledge update in relation to
Gender & anti-racism debates is shrugged of as community-specific expertise (and commented
With the reproach of having an only self-healing effect) instead of understood as the fundamental,
Constitutive (not so new) change of perspective, without which no thorough analysis of class
Struggle can withstand.

It was really interesting to read Dan?s report/ analysis of the beginning of ?identity politics? in the US
(In Europe, I assume, this is a slightly different story) and his acknowledgement/ claim that it is his
Generation's own fault not to have passed on the historic context to the next generation.
I would really like to engage in this discussion by asking if it is really about the lack of history in a
Negative sense, or, if the (assumed) lack of history/ continuity might not be _expression_ of a generally
Positive phenomenon: the attitude of a generation being sick of any kind of further waiting and gradual
Development, legitimately bold enough to demand full acceptance here and now - even if this leads to
A roundhouse-kick-radicality that sometimes feels moralizing and partly unfair even to antecedent
activists. (And no, I am not part of that generation and often enough annoyed myself, but try to
Understand.)

I?m not keen of discussing it in a context, though, where Alexander Bard can blatantly display his near-hatred
Anger on certain minority activism without being sanctioned, just days after a shooting in a synagogue and
Lethal threats to critics of Trump, with daily Police brutality towards POC, regular attacks on homes for asylum
Seekers in Germany, harassment of anti-Trump academics in the US and similar harassments of academics
Criticising right-wing politics now - even structurally organised - by the AfD in Germany as well, and ongoing
And normalised discrimination of and assaults on women.
Incitement to violence is a spark easily ignited these days.

Last but not least, I have the impression A.B. never really had to speak up for himself against a mainstream
Opinion, otherwise he would know how much courage it takes and that it is no way just 'fighting for one?s
Own good? but helps numerous others affected by that norm, and that keeping quiet and adapting, even at
The high price of ongoing unfair treatment, is often the easier way.

It seems to be necessary to point out that repeating just a mainstream opinion, once it is tumbling and
Forced to open up to multi-perspective views, does n o t count as such.

Best, N
Ps: Alice and Ian, your mails arrived while I wrote this, thanks again

Am 03.11.2018 um 18:30 schrieb Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com<mailto:bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com>>:
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:11 AM Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com<mailto:felix@openflows.com>> wrote:
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018, 6:07 AM Alexander Bard <bardissimo@gmail.com<mailto:bardissimo@gmail.com> wrote:

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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 21:45:25 -0700
From: Ana Ulin <ana@ulin.org>
To: angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com
Cc: nettime-l@kein.org
Subject: <nettime> Does Nettime have a code of conduct, policies or
other governance mechanisms?
Message-ID:
<CAN36svsMmH2HS68ng3bcF+EmL+UOkHCXcoBN7TXp0hCf9Ld=GA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

That is a great question, Angela. I, too, would love to know if there are
any policy, code of conduct or other mechanism that governs what is or is
not acceptable in this space.

I've been listening in on Nettime for a few weeks now, trying to decide if
it is a good fit for me. The fact that Willem's intentionally rude and
dismissive response to Angela seems to be welcome here, coupled with all
the airtime that has been given to Mr Best Intentions, suggests that this
space is either wholly ungoverned or that such behavior is explicitly
welcome.

Cheers,
Ana

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 4:21 PM Angela Mitropoulos <
angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a
> platform from which to recruit?
>
> Angela
>
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 20:21:13 -0700
From: Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com>
To: nettime <nettime-l@kein.org>
Subject: <nettime> Ash Sarkar video
Message-ID:
<CANuiTgzUYhJ89JyA5Ag0qm9R3Cb-QkKA4qXBiAQ2oY9=zi6OvA@mail.gmail.com>
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Alexander's positions have been thoroughly critiqued from many quarters.
After building on those critiques, Ian has just enumerated his many
reactionary statements. I think it's definitive and I won't engage with him
anymore.

Ari just sent in a video where a brilliant young woman, Ash Sarkar, talks
about the deliberate persecution of black radical socialists after the
1960s, and about the way that leftist social movements were weakened as a
result. She goes on to develop a class analysis which doesn't diss off
intersectionality (that's the main identity politics concept she discusses)
but instead, fills the gaps she sees in present-day politics on the left.
In the middle of it she invokes Angela Davis, a black Marxist feminist who
was not killed in the 1970s and went on, among other things, to help start
the movement against mass incarceration which has been one of the key
forces of change in American life during these last years. The only point
where I might disagree with her is that Angela Davis has certainly not been
forgotten in the US, though maybe in the UK, so in that case, let's
remember a little.

The difference is: talking about specific people and events in the present,
building constructive positions, and covering an amazing amount of ground
in short words.

Check it out if you missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5_-jA2X18

best, Brian
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End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 134, Issue 16
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