Dmytri Kleiner on Fri, 15 Jan 2021 20:07:29 +0100 (CET)


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Re: <nettime> The Left Needs a New Strategy 

On 2021-01-12 22:49, Ryan Griffis wrote:


Dmytri, I have no interest in engaging further in whatever it is
you’re doing, or think you’re doing, here.
Why do you feel my contribution here is particularly suspicious or illegitimate? 


I did *not* attempt "to use _ Stedile, a leader of MST,
against China.”
Yes, you did. There was no other context for you to drag up a 2008 quote other than to pretend it contradicts the argument I was making about a strategy of cooperation and respect with the Chinese workers and their country. 



It’s a *very* simple fact that China (and its corporate proxies) is
involved in massive agribusiness in the interior of Brazil that runs
counter to the objectives of the MST, *on its own terms*.
It comes as no surprise that there are conflicts and contradictions, and these are being worked on and resolved by the first parties involved, namely the Chinese companies in question and the MST.
We don't need to enter the fray as judgmental third parties, and we offer no value to the first parties, who are able to resolve their issues without us.
can trust the judgements of those working in that context, which is *in fact* 
where my observations came from.


That's great, however it's plain from the context that you only brought
it up to support judgemental denouncements of China.



I could go back and forth with you about my experience with the MST
and their multi-faceted (and multi-coalition-based) responses to
global agribusiness, including that originating from China. I could go
on to discuss how the work of the MST is connected with a global
network of agrarian movements that take different shapes in different
contexts (Via Campesina  which includes orgs like the Family Farm
Defenders based in nearby (to me) Wisconsin).
About how I learned of the work of the MST not because I was trying
to leverage something as a “third party,” but because the work they do has direct relevance to 
land-based movements where I live. It’s something to learn from and
alongside.
That all sounds quite interesting, and it would actually be far more relevant here if you did talk about that experience rather than throwing out an out of context and out of date quote from João Pedro that is critical of China. 



About how I learned of
the work of the MST not because I was trying to leverage something as
a “third party,” but because the work they do has direct relevance to
land-based movements where I live.
Please do tell us more about the work described above! It sounds really commendable and interesting. However, this is the first you mention any of this in the thread, so yes, tell us more instead of looking for material that denounces China. 



It’s something to learn from and
alongside. But, whatever, based on the fact that you responded earlier
with an article that was probably a first page search result looking
to see who Stedile was, you don’t seem to care about such details.
I do care about such details, and quoted the relevant parts of the article. 



The
only value that article seemed to have for you was as a discursive
retort (seemingly because it included the word “China” in it while
acknowledging shifting geopolitical dynamics).
Yes, it is indeed the shifting geopolitical dynamics that relevant here, as I've argued here that the shifting geopolitical dynamics are import strategic considerations for the left, if we are willing to see ourselves as part of a larger team that includes the global left, including the MST and China. 



In fact, you even
*introducing* the MST into the conversation was simply a matter of
convenience for you, one amongst an interchangeable array of movements
that you can mobilize as an example.
What objection do you have of me introducing the MST as an example? What is meant by casting my "convenience" as sinister or insincere? 



Maybe try taking your own advice before committing to your responses,
you know, like not speaking about things for which you have no stakes
and of which you seem to know little.
First of all, I have never asked anyone not to speak about anything, speaking is good, as noted elsewhere, speaking is a part of dialog, and dialog is good.
What I've suggested is that people not judge and denounce the countries and movements of the global left in which they have no stake, and clearly I have not done so. 



I’ll leave it to others to reply
further if you/they wish to continue. Just try leaving out further
gross mischaracterizations of my comments if you can.
My characterizations where accurate, tho perhaps you are not being honest with yourself about why you find my participation here suspicious or illegitimate.
In any case, your work sounds very interesting, and drawing on it more would enrich this discussion, especially as concerns your experience in Wisonsin and the networks you describe. 

Cheers,

--
Dmytri Kleiner
@dmytri
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