| podinski on Mon, 18 Jan 2021 23:16:36 +0100 (CET) |
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| Re: <nettime> The Left Needs a New Strategy |
Hi all, I am pretty sure that what the Left DOESNT NEED for a new strategy is new fracturing + polarization techniques... I experienced alot of it at the hands of the Telekommunisten in 2020... Pretty sure it wont help enable the construction of local and global solidarities and much-needed new mobilizations in the current bundle of crises ! Denouncing people who havent checked off on Dmytri's new hot reading list of the month is definitely not a method i am excited about being hit over the head with again this year ! Back when i was being berated at full bullying charge... his fresh reading was about White Fragility... So if anyone attempted to defend themselves against his frenetic ideological corkscrews ... it was being white and fragile... so anyone attempting dialogically to counter in his denouncement rants was simply ignored on that premise, and it just didn't fit his current agenda. But i am going to move on, without feeling too abused this time... it was simply ear-less mansplaining + more-radical-than- you attitude... at a pretty belligerent level ! And i can laugh a little more about it now ! I don't discount many topics that he brings up... i..e. LAND STRUGGLES are HUGE... ( which maybe equates to our housing + rent struggles in the urban north ? )... and the agricultural nightmares that are poised to spawn a new virus every year or so... or as B. De Santos Sousa said: WE NEED TO LISTEN TO THE VOICES + STRATEGIES OF THE RESISTANCE in THE SOUTH... but this approach of attacking other people on the LEFT demonstrates a terrible method of teaching and discourages people from building bridges and joining forces in the struggles ahead ! ... Perhaps imagining what new strategies we need in the midst of extended pandemic lockdowns and corporate capitalist communist hyper-industrialization, which now has us all trying resolve extremely volatile socio-economic + environmental situations via the new Zoomed-in Military Hamster Cage Complex is going to require alot of new solidarity approaches and building alot of TRUST within our affinity + working groups ! Brian, Thx for the initial and thread and your offlist post, and all the contributors to the discussion, it does actually give lots of room to think fwd AND share ideas... I have a few issues re: experimenting in small-scale collectivity, but will try to address that another time. ... Btw, Dmytri ... maybe you should try coming out to one of the next housing demos ... to find out what locals in Berlin are actually doing... instead of trying to upload the big gameplan for everyone under the sun ! For example: https://www.h48bleibt.org Ciao, Podinski On 18/01/21 20:27, nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org wrote: > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@mail.kein.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-owner@mail.kein.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: The Left Needs a New Strategy (Roman Seidl) > 2. Re: The Left Needs a New Strategy (John Young) > 3. Re: The Left Needs a New Strategy (Dmytri Kleiner) > 4. Re: The Left Needs a New Strategy (Brian Holmes) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 18:53:34 +0000 (UTC) > From: Roman Seidl <rot@granul.at> > To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org > Subject: Re: <nettime> The Left Needs a New Strategy > Message-ID: <6e7c6e7e-47ec-43a6-91e3-b6ec130ff1d7@granul.at> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > All right, but which one? The CPC? > > I thought I have to be a migrant worker in China to really understand the true emancipatory nature of the CPC. Else I can neither criticise them nor follow them. Because ignoring China is not an option either. We are all lost. > > So it all ends up in a double bind. But in the end we are all McCarthists, at least that's set. > > Roman > > P.S.: I was not calling for moderation. I just tried to outline where this is going to end if thing go on like this. I admire most people's ability her on the list to produce constructive and meaningful replies to something which is for my part mostly utter nonsense. So yes, maybe the debate produced some reasonable results. But to me this ends where there is? just insult and double binds. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 14:16:59 -0500 > From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com> > To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org > Subject: Re: <nettime> The Left Needs a New Strategy > Message-ID: <E1l1a1I-000Cay-HF@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > > Indeed, The horrors of Joseph Conrad: > > The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies > > https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm > > Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum. > Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation > Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist > Saboteurs > Provocateurs > Informants > Recruiting > Surveillance > Scare Tactics > Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20210118/da079289/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:18:29 +0100 > From: Dmytri Kleiner <dk@telekommunisten.net> > To: John Young <jya@pipeline.com> > Cc: nettime-l@mail.kein.org > Subject: Re: <nettime> The Left Needs a New Strategy > Message-ID: <89d45815f777fef83e40df90a9627228@trick.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On 2021-01-18 19:11, John Young wrote: > >> "iterate forward" is promisingly constructive action. > "Discover the truth through practice, and again through practice verify > and develop the truth. Start from perceptual knowledge and actively > develop it into rational knowledge; then start from rational knowledge > and actively guide revolutionary practice to change both the subjective > and the objective world. Practice, knowledge, again practice, and again > knowledge. This form repeats itself in endless cycles, and with each > cycle the content of practice and knowledge rises to a higher level. > Such is the whole of the dialectical-materialist theory of knowledge, > and such is the dialectical-materialist theory of the unity of knowing > and doing." -- Mao, On Practice, 1937 > > Indeed, there is no other way. > > >> Not so much name-callingly destructive "sinomane telecommunist." > The white ragers here feel justified in this kind of behaviour, just > like the other white ragers of #AllLivesMatter and #NotAllMen fame. The > very accusation of bias or chauvinism is treated as insult; how very > dare you say that of me!! And so this justifies random unhinged insults > in return, as we see here. It's very import for them to portray me as > bad person, possibly crazy, rather than engage in the difficult process > of confronting their own chauvinism and bias. > > And of course, there cognitive dissonance means they can't hear what is > actually being argued; dialectic materialism and proletarian > internationalism. They instead pepper their responses with fallacious > absurdum barely above calling me a chink-lover, and weak-minded strawmen > about "party lines" and "out of date" bad think, all expressed with the > most cornball hollywood tropes. > >> Demanding moderators to regulate is hardly insightful, more inciteful, >> downright spiteful. > I'm confident the hand-shake deal I made with Pit and Geert over swigs > of Advocaat while taking shelter beneath the ruins of the Telegrafenamt > as we fought in the trenches with the resistance in The Second Browser > Wars. I'm entitled to shock and awe nettime once every decade, and > neither Ted nor Felix will risk relegation to the tickle gulag. > > However, I never resist moderation. > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: