Re: <nettime> The Left Needs a New Strategy

[Bruce Robinson <bruce@brucerob.eu>]

I agree with Andreas.  It is a far better example of Dmytri's much 
vaunted 'proletarian internationalism' to support those in China, and 
that the moment particularly Hong Kong, fighting for their rights 
against the repressive and anti-working class regime.  I cannot see any 
reason why the Chinese Communist Party should be considered part of an 
international left, assuming that being on the left has something to do 
with democracy, socialism and working class self emancipation. Dmytri 
will no doubt denounce this as 'third way'. I would describe myself as a 
Third Camp socialist as these are the only criteria by which to measure 
regimes and movements against the aims that I see as fundamental to any 
kind of real human liberation. On that basis I reject having to choose 
between US and Chinese imperialisms.

(There has been a recent wave of arrests in Hong Kong including many of 
the leaders of the independent trade union movement. There is a meeting 
on January 30th with speakers from the UK labour movement and  HK unions 
here: https://www.facebook.com/events/247169266771050/)

I am not in favour of ending this discussion bureaucratically. But what 
I find hard to take is the 'live and let live' attitude towards Dmytri's 
contributions by some who have responded. His positions are something 
the real left needs to fight against.

Bruce Robinson

On 19/01/2021 13:01, Dmytri Kleiner wrote:
> On 2021-01-19 07:16, Andreas Broeckmann wrote:
>
> > > However, as we all know, the government of China enjoys broad support
> > > from it's people.
>
> > > After all, by every measure they are doing better
> > > than we are in terms of getting what they want from their government.
>
> > I'm not in the "we" group of your first statement, and I doubt the
> > second.
>
> "since the start of the survey in 2003, Chinese citizen satisfaction 
> with government has increased virtually across the board. From the 
> impact of broad national policies to the conduct of local town 
> officials, Chinese citizens rate the government as more capable and 
> effective than ever before. Interestingly, more marginalized groups in 
> poorer, inland regions are actually comparatively more likely to 
> report increases in satisfaction"
>
> -- Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation, Harvard 
> University [1]
>
> This is widely known, confirmed by many studies such as this one from 
> Harvard.
>
>
> > (It's strange that you decline to know enough about prisoners,
> > but this you are sure enough of for all of us, readers.)
>
> It's not that I decline to know, it's that I decline the white man's 
> burden and support the self-determination of the Chinese people, and 
> since I also oppose imperialism, I feel our duty is to prevent our own 
> countries from promoting insecurity in China by way of aggression.
>
> Thus, the strategy I have proposed is that we trust the people of 
> China to improve their own situation, while we do the same hare and 
> focus on preventing our own governments from doing harm.
>
> This is the strategy known as proletarian internationalism.
>
>
> > For someone who complains so much about people around him shouting 
> > (even if they
> > aren't),
>
> Where I have made such complaints?
>
>
> > you shout a lot...
>
> There is no shouting happening here.
>
>
> > The self-declared Stalinists of the
> > Marxistische Gruppe at my university in the 1980s sounded like this;
> > and they were also always right, and kept on shouting until everybody
> > was exhausted and the lecture was declared over. I always thought that
> > Western Stalinists were people hopping between denial, apology, and
> > assertion (at that time, with regard to the USSR, but exactly at the
> > pitch you also choose to singsing).
>
> I'm sorry about your experience in the 80s with white western 
> leftists, but it has nothing to do with the discussion here.
>
>
> > If this was a conversation, I might ask what, in your view, is 
> > "Stalinism".
>
> "Stalinism" was not introduced here by me, it was introduced as a 
> bargain-bin pejorative by Brian, which you are now making rollmops of 
> as a red herring.
>
> If this was a conversation you would address the topic, namely the 
> questions of left strategy that have been discussed.
>
>
>
>
> [1] 
> https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
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