| It’s late April 
2022 in Bologna and we meet in Franco’s apartment. He shows me his 
collection of collages he produced in the Covid period, his art therapy 
to fight off depression. The paintings can be found here and there 
online, exhibited under the pseudonym Istubalz. We’ve come together to 
discuss his latest book The Third Unconscious, The Psycho-sphere in the Viral Age (published in English by Verso,
 translated by Bifo himself into Italian). He wrapped up the manuscript 
during the Summer of 2021, midway into the Corona pandemic. Different 
from his 2020 diary, the book already attempts to frame the pandemic. 
There’s hardly any time for reflection as we’ve moved into the next 
crisis.
Before I departed from Amsterdam our Institute of Network Cultures published the English translation of Franco’s latest essay, The Precipe,
 on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Two months into the war, I am taking a
 break from the Tactical Media Room campaign at home. With the support of Annaliza 
Pelizza, I took up a residency at Umberto Eco’s former semiotics 
department. Afraid that a debate about foreign affairs, the depressing 
state of the EU and the role of the US and NATO may lead to a ritual 
exchange of banalities over the latest factoids and expose inevitable 
generational and regional differences, it turned out better to instead 
take a dive into the underlying mental conditions of our accelerating 
present.  The message of 
this short book is simple: we urgently need to engage with the future of
 psychoanalysis. The discovery of the unconscious in the 18th and 19th 
century resulted in the founding of psychoanalysis as both a therapy and
 tool for cultural analysis. Later, of course, it became an industry. In
 response to the emphasis of its founding fathers on denial and 
sublimation, the second mode of the unconscious, associated with Lacan 
and even more so Deleuze and Guattari, stressed the element of 
production. For them, the unconscious is not a theatre but a factory. 
Fifty years into the liberation of desire probe, Berardi proposes a next
 angle: a third unconscious that circles around an understanding of the 
social dimension of the mind, in a world that is no longer focused on 
growth and (schizo)productivity but on extinction and degrowth. Berardi 
calls for the development of new critical concepts that can help us to 
understand today’s spectrum of emotional attention. We must practice 
“riding the dynamic of disaster,” which he calls an accurate description
 of “our mental condition during the current earthquake, which is also a
 heart-quake and a mind-quake.” The seamless transition from Covid into the war in Ukraine reinstates
 the collapse of the bio-info-psycho circuit under the weight of the 
‘stack of crises’ (my term), the succession of catastrophic events. 
There’s a deeply unsettling and often profoundly depressing inevitably 
lurking about this atmosphere of accumulating disaster: the all too real
 sense that life is on the brink of total collapse and imminent 
disaster. With his 
psychoanalytic invention, Berardi has made a clever move, escaping the 
dull regulatory dead-end street into which Europe’s marginal social 
media critique manoeuvred itself. Who’s still using the internet, after 
all? With the contemporary art system becoming a woke stage, the old 
European white man is advised to step back. Refusing to stop thinking, 
over the past years Berardi no doubt had to cope with a strong 
fluctuation of moods himself. Readers can easily identify the mental 
disposition of the author. Luckily, The Third Unconscious proves
 the advantage of a certain distance on events. The medium of the long 
essay or book helps, in this respect. Berardi remains one of the few 
European intellectuals with such a phenomenal seismographic sensibility,
 in particular toward the dark states of the young minds, glued to their
 devices. Reading the pulse in this way, in tune with the world of 
youth, is something he shares with the late Bernard Stiegler. For doom scrollers, tired of reading nostalgic statements such as 
analogue=potency versus digital=exhaustion, the activist Berardi offers a
 clear alternative: “It is based on liberation from the obsession with 
economic growth; it is based on the redistribution of resources, on the 
reduction of labour time, and on the expansion of time dedicated to the 
free activity of teaching, healing and taking care.” To get there 
Berardi proposes a “psycho-cultural conversion to frugality and 
friendship.” But before we can get there, it is crucial to work together
 on the correct diagnosis of the present. Geert Lovink: The Third Unconscious is not a
 Covid diary. How do you look back at the past two years? It doesn’t 
feel like it’s over, despite history accelerating with Russia’s invasion
 of Ukraine. Instead of orgasmic celebrations many seem reluctant and 
have internalized the regime of social distancing, quarantines, and 
lockdowns. Let’s call this Mental Long Covid. How would you describe it? Franco Berardi: We’re in a situation that never 
ends, that is always feeding fear. What is lacking is the cathartic 
moment, the orgasm, the moment you start a new life. We long for the end
 but it is not coming. I have a friend, a psychiatrist who suffers from 
long Covid in the medical sense, and she describes it as a condition of 
physical distress and weakness, the inability to move on. It is a state 
of permanent exhaustion. GL: In The Origins of Totalitarianism Hannah
 Arendt states that the power of authoritarian rule is to create 
isolation and loneliness. Around the same time, in the early 1950s, 
David Riesman describes a similar phenomenon in The Lonely Crowd. FB: In my book, I quote the famous words of a 
Canadian doctor that warned against sexual intercourse during the Covid 
period. At that moment I became aware of the transformation of 
proximity, meaning the relations of bodies in space, meaning the 
characterization of the body of the other as a sanitary danger. If you 
are seventy, like me, this may be an intellectual object of study, but 
when you’re sixteen this may change your perception of the future. It 
may have a long-term traumatic effect—another manifestation of long 
Covid. There is a sharp increase in suicide among the young population, a
 rise of 39 percent in Italy. GL: Cyberculture has prepared this condition over 
the past thirty years with virtual sex, online dating, telephone sex, 
and webcams, up to the metaverse. Sexual intercourse at a distance is an
 integral part of global culture. FB: The pandemic years have not changed this 
direction, but rather manifest as a final acceleration of already 
existing psychological and economic tendencies. We’ve not experienced a 
paradigmatic shift. You can see this at the level of precarization and 
the virtualization of work and increased mental exploitation. Tragedies 
can help to change the course of history, but this has not happened. GL: What is hyperconnected loneliness? This 
condition seems to be paradoxical. As Sherry Turkle’s book title says: 
we are alone together. We are surrounded by so many others. The dominant
 platforms are called “social” media for a reason. But there is no space
 for reflection in solitude. Social media constantly disrupt you, even 
if you try. FB: Over the past twenty years there has been a 
transfer of embodied social time into a disembodied empty time. Online 
you are socially engaged, you do not quit society, but you abandoned the
 possibility of meeting the body of the other. The year 2020 completed 
this process. Even before Covid, we experienced a culture of fatigue in 
the sense of regression and stagnation at many levels. This sense of 
alienation was already perceived, in your work, mine, and others. The 
psychopathology of the hyperconnected world is well known. In 2017 I was tired. I was sick as well and put on an automatic reply
 saying that I was sorry and that I was not able to check my email 
because of my fatigue. A friend responded that she was anxious that I 
was lost for the world, please don’t do this, she wrote to me. You can 
say I am old, and a lost case, coming from the analogue era. However, 
when I am required to remember five different passwords and pin numbers 
to check my sanity situation, that’s causing stress for everyone. These 
sorts of oppressive data regimes are draining our cognitive capacity. 
This is also part of Mental Long Covid. The fall of 2019 was a significant period. We saw many protests, 
worldwide, from Santiago in Chile to Hong Kong. The widespread 
collective disaffection on a mass scale can be read as a sign that 
endemic exhaustion was no longer bearable for many. I witnessed many 
movements, from 1968 and 1977 to the anti-war protests in 2003 and 
Occupy in 2011. In 2019 I had the impression that the various protests 
diverged and lacked a common motive and language. At the level of 
subjectivity, they are contradictory. A political strategy is becoming 
impossible to find. In 2011 you had the movement of the squares, from 
Cairo and Damascus to Madrid: different circumstances but the same 
conceptual framework. I call it the convulsive moment. GL: In the book, you make a call to forget our 
origins. Is this why you shy away from saying something about Black 
Lives Matter, Extinction Rebellion, and related Instagram-driven 
movements? Do you believe in the revolutionary potential of identity 
politics? FB: Identity can sometimes be a tool to create 
solidarity. At the same time, it is a trap. Identity is a 
misunderstanding, also a philosophical concept. Identity means the 
construction or perception of difference concerning the other. My 
identity is different from yours. In this context, I prefer a concept 
from Simondon: not identity but the differentiation process that makes 
it possible for me to become an individual. This is what he calls 
individuation. If you think that the foundation of solidarity is 
identity, the next step is war. The identification of the nation in 
European history means war, and this is what we’re currently witnessing 
in Ukraine. GL: You go to Spain to attend the meeting of the 
psychoanalysis association there. Also, you are part of a Latin seminar 
of psychoanalytic practitioners that meet on Zoom twice a week and work 
with the old friends of Guattari who are preparing a meeting for the 
fiftieth anniversary of Anti-Oedipus. What do you propose to them? FB: I am reading Freud and Ferenczi again and have 
to admit: their writing is naive—for instance, Freud’s analysis of war 
neurosis. Even Ferenczi cannot understand what’s happening on the 
collective level of psychic suffering. This is beyond the horizon of 
psychoanalysis, even for Jung, who’s the only one that speaks of the 
collective unconscious. This indicates that we are on the brink of a 
significant scientific and philosophical discovery. This will neither 
come from cognitive psychology nor neuroscience. We need to locate it 
inside the realm of psychoanalysis. I do not believe neuroscience will 
take over. It understands 99 percent of what happens inside the brain in
 terms of distraction, decision making, and memory but what they 
overlook is the human sensibility. Human behavior is not a deterministic
 feature. Something is not explainable in terms of causality. GL: Would that be the social? Your opening sentence 
states that you explore the ongoing mutation of the social Unconscious. I
 would add the techno-social … FB: I recently reread a book of Félix Guattari that I translated myself into Italian and that I know very well, Le Capitalisme Mondial Intégré, as
 he is one of the few thinkers to see the relation between the 
unconscious and technology. Guattari is not doing this from the 
nostalgic humanist perspective. On the contrary. He speaks about the 
potential of the machinic unconscious. I ask: what is the spatial 
character of the social today? My current obsession is with the 
inability of psychoanalysis to deal with the current techno-social 
unconscious. The seminar I participate in looks at this from a Latin 
perspective, which may be different from an Anglo-Saxon or a Chinese 
one. Marx and Darwin are part of our toolbox to understand the present, 
but Freud is no longer in the mix. GL: Is this because the Freudian perspective got 
compromised by marketing? We’re aware that we can be influenced in 
subliminal ways, we know our sexual drives, many young readers would 
think. FB: Psychology has become an integral part of 
capitalist consumerism. But beware: that doesn’t mean that psyche is no 
longer relevant. On the contrary. The psychoanalytic perspective is the 
most crucial now but it is missing. We badly need a psychoanalytic 
understanding of the present, more than an economic one. The social 
production of loneliness, competitive behavior, and aggression are as 
real as economic exploitation. GL: As a member of the Guattari circle, back in the 
seventies in Paris, how do you look at the “Werdegang” or demise of the 
second unconscious? FB: That’s the neoliberal unconscious as described by Massimo Recalcati in his 2010 book The Man Without an Unconscious—a
 subject without a deep well of unconscious desire, obsessed with 
immediate enjoyment. No more delayed gratification. In this system, the 
unconscious has been externalized and exploded in the social 
imagination. Without realizing it, the authors of the 1972 Anti-Oedipus sketch
 out the genesis of the neoliberal unconscious. They speak of the 
explosion of the unconscious as a happy process of liberation—which is 
legitimate. But the reality is the implosion of it. If you want to 
understand this, read Michel Foucault’s 1979 seminar La Naissance de la biopolitique.
 Several years later Foucault was indeed able to articulate this 
mechanism. He understands the mental aspect of the Thatcher moment. 
Covid has exposed the impossibility to continue with the second 
unconscious, which is dead, but we are living inside the dead corpse. 
We’re still living under the threat of economic growth, liberation, 
etc., while stagnation is our daily reality. GL: How would you describe the current culture of 
fear and anger, of resignation and stagnation? In your book, you pair 
concepts such as extinction and exhaustion with impotence. FB: Now you are entering the realm of the unknown 
that urgently needs to be studied. We don’t know what’s going to happen 
and don’t know what should be done to escape the current crisis. We must
 go deep at this moment of catastrophe. Is there a therapy or a 
political strategy to overcome the current depression? GL: After studying and describing one particular 
form of the techno-social mental condition, namely sadness as the 
twenty-first-century manifestation of melancholia, I came to the 
conclusion that the description alone is not sufficient. Sadness, by 
design, is going nowhere. The recognition as such does not lead us to a 
political strategy. At best, we get a deeper understanding of the 
current stagnation. FB: In your new book Stuck on the Platform you
 are not proposing sadness as a way out. However, what we can say is 
that, for instance, Putin is a product of a long-lasting depression, on 
the verge of collapse, which at this stage means taking that jump out of
 the window. At this very moment in time we are at the point of suicide.
 How do we get out of this situation? My intuition tells me that 
depression is the therapy for depression. We should go the homeopathic 
way. The depressed persona today is the one who understands reality best
 and does not experience a desire or see a future in his or her own 
life. It is the only person who can tell the truth to him or herself. We
 should validate this position and see it as a starting point in 
political terms. Here I come to my keyword for 2022: resignation. In Christian 
terminology, resignation means the acceptance of the will of God. You 
must accept and resign and not refuse. If you do not trust God and do 
not believe, like me, even if you count the bishop of Bologna among your
 friends, like me, what is the meaning of resignation for us atheists? 
It means abandoning the expectations we had. Let’s abandon the idea that
 the future will be expensive. Forget the equitation of larger being 
better. That’s over. You remember Schumacher’s Small Is Beautiful, which meant that on a small level we could find better ways to expand. No, that’s really over. The intellectual, mental, and cognitive resources of the planet are 
exhausted, even in China, where we witness a significant movement to 
abandon work due to mental but also procreation exhaustion. Think of the
 hikikomori phenomenon in Japan of young hermits that have totally 
withdrawn from society. When a Japanese friend visited me in 2008 and 
told me about the one million hikikomori, I felt bad for them, how 
horrible, and he told me he had not left his room for six months until 
he discovered the autonomia concept and understood the affinity
 of the autonomous stance with his condition. Try to take the Tokyo 
subway. Try to work in an office in Tokyo. This is when I started to 
think about the paradox of depression in our time. When the social 
becomes so competitive, so repressive, better to close off and go for 
loneliness as the better option. No more human beings, I want to be 
alone. Monastic life gets a new meaning. (This is the original text. A shorter version was published by e-flux. Thanks for your edits, Grammarly, Ned and Mike). |