Hello,
Just to follow Felix's last point also mentioned by others: the WE
of netttime is really important - this came up a number of times
in yesterday's discussion. Sustainability is dependent on not just
the technical questions but also on the social aspects; how does
nettime evolve and who does it address and how can people
participate in a meaningful way... the range of issues that came
up in yesterday's discussion was really encouraging regarding
future possibilities.
best
allan
On 2023. 06. 14. 10:00, Felix Stalder
via Nettime-tmp wrote:
Hi
Rich,
for me as an barely capable sys-admin, complex infrastructure --
and as you detail so well, mail server have become very complex --
always runs on someone else's computer.
For me, and for nettime since it's inception, the way to deal with
this is to operate on social trust (aka friendship), to be able to
talk to the sys admin and have a cooperative relationship, so
things don't disappear suddenly and if they do, there is a base
layer of shared commitments to sort the situation out.
This is why I always said that moderation and sysadmin goes
together. It doesn't need to be the same people, but people who
trust and communicate each other.
We've had this with kein and Ljudmila, and also with Waag and
possibly rhizome. With rise-up, there is a shared value base, not
not really personal contacts, which makes me slightly more
hesitant.
So, this is both a technical question and a social question. And
who the "we" is in the end shapes that.
all the best. Felix
On 13.06.23 18:26, Rich Kulawiec via Nettime-tmp wrote:
On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 12:02:10AM +1000,
paul van der walt via Nettime-tmp wrote:
* John Preston will reach out to
riseup.net, to ask whether they would be
willing and/or able to host a list of our size,
* Jordan Crandall knows the executive director of rhizome.org
and so will
put out feelers in that direction,
* Henk said that waag.org would be able to host nettime if we
wanted that.
These may or may not be good options, but I thought that the
idea was
to do everything possible to avoid having to revisit this issue
in the
future -- which is why I didn't volunteer to host the list even
though
I could have it running on existing infrastructure in a matter
of hours.
Otherwise: what's the plan when riseup.net (et.al.) go away?
(That's not
a rhetorical question.) You'll be right back here again. The
only way
to avoid this inevitability is to run your own domain, mail
system,
and mailing list -- and to structure it so that it's a
lift-and-drop
operation to shift it to another host should that need arise.
These are baseline skills for any competent sysadmin, so this
shouldn't
be that hard. There have got to be half a dozen (or more)
people here
who have this skillset, right? Or who are capable of learning
and who
are willing to invest the necessary time/effort?
Otherwise, all that will happen is shifting and deferring the
problem,
not solving the problem. And if you want to choose that path:
well,
it's certainly an option. But that choice will have
consequences.
---rsk
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