nettime: NSK State interview

[Pit Schultz <pit@contrib.de>]

http://www.synet.net/sonic-boom/ai/arc/laibach.html

Arc: What events led up to the decision by Laibach to create the NSK State
and the offering of NSK citizenship around the world?

Ivan: Well, NSK was, well, I'm not sure how familiar you are with NSK, but
in 1990, after the breakup of Eastern Europe and of Yugoslavia, we
decided to that we should form our own state as well because we do not feel
comfortable within any other existing system - any territorial shell
that is based on national principles. And although we were working only here
in Slovenia, that didn't actually mean we belonged to the state of
Slovenia, or the state of whatever. So we decided that we were going to form
the NSK State, which was going to be based on the principles of
no borders, no nationality and so on. 

Arc: What does Laibach hope to accomplish with the NSK State? 

Ivan: Well, you have to treat it as a sort-of living social structure and we
basically have certain systems built up, which is actually helping us
promote ourselves with a different point of view than we previously would
have done otherwise. That we would be forced to do otherwise.
Everyone can go around and, whatever - Laibach, the group from Slovenia,
Irwin, the group from Slovenia. If we have a certain, let's say, clear,
certain ideas about the relation of art to theology, then we have to invent
a system where we are going to feel fine ourselves, a system we
believe can offer the people an alternative, yes? 

Arc: I see. 

Ivan: I mean, people having the passports, traveling with them and so on,
actually using it - the validity of the passports pretty much depends on
every single person who owns one. And, some people are heavily using them.
We gave them to a group from Bosnia, and from other places
around the world and some have been able to actually use them. If you have
about four to five thousand people who actually belong to a certain
state, then you create yourself. 

Arc: This is very interesting. Does citizenship in the NSK State interfere
at all with someone's citizenship with another country? 

Ivan: It is a personal decision. If someone wants to keep two citizenships,
it's really up to him. Obviously, as long as the NSK State is not going
to offer the same, how you say, safety as the other citizenship, then I
believe most people will keep their other citizenship. The NSK State is
offering an adventure, and your second state is offering you security. 

Arc: Your past energies were devoted to the creation of an independent
Slovene nation. As your work has been deeply rooted in Slovene
culture, how will that apply to the NSK State? 

Ivan: Well, that is one interesting fact. It is true that we were connected
with the riots of the Slovenia state, the Slovenian nation. And that we
were maybe among the loudest ones who were bringing the change, whatever.
But, the fact is that on the other side, we were pretty much well
treated here, anyway. We were dealing with the Slovenian market, but not
really just the Slovenian markets, that is pretty much a
misunderstanding, but the markets used all over the world, except that it
was specialized in Slovenia, because it did not exist at that time. It was
a utopian state. And now it (Slovenia) has become a realistic state. We do
not feel that we are in the realistic state. We only feel comfortable in
the utopian states that we can create ourselves. 

Arc: Will the emphasis on cultural heritage still be there and if it does,
how will the different cultures fit into Laibach and the NSK State? 

Ivan: The NSK State will fit in everywhere as a kind of paradox, a virus,
another identity. The cultural heritage is not an issue at all. If you are an
Eskimo, or you are from South Africa, South America, somewhere, well, we all
finally live in a global village. Everyone has the right to deal with
their own obsessions and cultural heritage, and so on, but there is a
certain common thing which will bring people together. We are also
interested in opposite things, things that conflict with each other. 

Arc: How will a person benefit from becoming an NSK citizen? 

Ivan: Again, this is one of those questions. A person will benefit as much
as they want to. The NSK State is a state of mind and you don't get
really any material benefit out of it. 

Arc: Will there be any official NSK communiques to its citizens, such as an
State newspaper to keep the citizens informed of NSK activities? 

Ivan: Well at the moment, there is, well actually you are asking the wrong
person. The NSK State is just a shell, it does not present any big
question to Laibach. We are members of the NSK, and we have chosen to become
members of the NSK State. But there is a bulletin produced
by the NSK Information Center which is kind of a mixture of say, state news,
information about NSK, groups and activities. At the moment it is
still a fusion of, not exactly a fan newspaper, but hopefully it will
develop into a proper magazine. But all of the passport holders are catalogued
and if we want to, we can easily inform them about any matter concerning the
state. 

Arc: What is the primary difference between being an NSK citizen and an NSK
member? 

Ivan: Well the members of the NSK are basically just the founding groups,
members of Laibach, members of Irwin and so on. 

Arc: Will there ever be a way for a citizen to become a member of NSK? 

Ivan: Well, there is a way, but it is really not too easy. The members are
of a certain generation of people who were growing up together,
working together and not very many of those people have actually changed. We
have many collaborators, many people working with us, but the
members of NSK are pretty much the same as it was ten years ago. We've tried
several times to get new members, but it's always very difficult,
and I'm not saying that the rules are so strict, but it is very difficult
because we have entirely devoted ourselves to what we are doing, and hardly
anybody can do that 24 hours a day. 

Arc: Once you have gained a sizable citizenship, what will be your next move? 

Ivan: Well, at the moment we are working on NSK currency, NSK stamps, and
there will soon be an exhibition, ah, action in the central Post
Office of Slovenia, which will last a week and we will present NSK Post. All
letters that travel from the post to all over the world during that week
will also bear the stamp of NSK State. This is one of the principles on how
the NSK State works. It takes the image of another body. It's a
kind-of virus, which can actually function within another body. 

Arc: Talking on a musical level now, the Mute press release talks about
enjoying the NATO album on different levels, first of which being a purely
musical level. In picking the songs for NATO, does Laibach choose first from
a musical level, or a political one? 

Ivan: We actually picked those songs for different options, and certain
importance those songs have, or had. You know, a certain message we
originally had from them and the way this message transferred into a
different context. That is the basic rule. Also, there is one rule that we like
to apply, which is making, how you say, gold out of shit. People are
accusing us of choosing songs that intellectuals despise. Hit songs,
European songs, you know. But we believe people should not act on their
prejudice all the time. 

Arc: Were there any songs on NATO chosen simply for the appropriate message
that in their original form, fall outside of Laibach's own taste in
music. 

Ivan: The songs that we are choosing have nothing to do with our musical
taste. They are only the songs that we are aware of, as part of the
history. Our musical taste is very wide, very broad. Basically it (Laibach's
musical taste) is somewhere else. 

Arc: Seeing how you hold in contempt many western characteristics, including
music, how does the reworking of western music further NSK
ideals? 

Ivan: Well, it is very easy. One of the principal ideas of the NSK is that
the originals do not exist and therefore no RcopiesS exist. We are
allowed to use all of the existing materials and put it in a different
context and recycling it a bit basically, and producing new content with it.
It is a
new work and you have to value that work through what you see. You can value
it from what is was before only if you are objective, if you are
able to do both. This album has eight songs, but it also has nine completely
new songs. 

Arc: Is it a matter of reaching the most people by using widely-known songs,
or do the songs have meaning for Laibach before you reinterpret
them? 

Ivan: Well, yes, of course, that is what I said. If people know these songs
they suddenly have nine new songs from the eight and they double their
pleasure. 

Arc: Do you plan on returning to the US in the future? 

Ivan: We would very much like to come next year. It is not very easy to make
a tour in the states. There is a huge cost and so on. 

Arc: Do you think it is worth your efforts to present your views in the US? 

Ivan: Well yes, of course, Why not? Why shouldn't it be? 

Arc: Well, you know, many people have felt like there is a certain
stereotype that American people are ignorant, not caring and would not want
to understand your views. 

Ivan: We were in the states twice, and we did tours already. We did quite a
lot of concerts, actually. We did sixty all together and the audiences
who came to the shows were interested. 

Arc: Some Laibach fans seem to have been disappointed by Kapital and we've
already seen some grumbling about NATO, in terms of the
dance beats. As Laibach and NSK look to the past and incorporate it into the
present and future, will we ever see a return the Laibach's past
musical styles? 

Ivan: Well, Laibach works in concentric circles. We are interested in
experiments on one side and also in pop culture. And we believe some of
the most experimental things are actually done inside of popular culture.
You cannot deny that Kraftwerk are not a popular group on one side
and on the other side they actually belong to a classical field. And some of
the most industrial groups have been invented inside of the dance
scene. So these things collide. They go from one into another. We have no
prejudice against any styles. And I think that people who expect us to
sound like we did ten years ago are not living in the right time. We were
interested in dance music, techno music from the very beginning. If you
read carefully our text, in 1982, you will find the ten items of the
convent, and it is clearly written that we are working through certain
industrial
logic. Our inspirations are Brutism, techno, disco and so on. 

Arc: Well, I guess our alloted time is up. Thank you, Ivan, and we hope to
see you here in the states soon. 

Ivan: Thank you. 


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