Mark Stahlman (via RadioMail) on Fri, 7 Mar 97 19:25 MET |
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nettime: The Real Deal |
Folks: There are couple of pretty obvious points that we have been glossing over here in our comparison of various online forums. The WELL is a *big* place (as is eMinds). The "Goofy Leftists Sniping at WIRED" (GLSaW)"topic" which we have been talking about here is #200! (out of ???) on one "conference" out of many, many conferences on the WELL. GLSaW is really just another list like this one -- except that thousands of such lists are collected together and then called the WELL all of which you get access to for your $10/month. Likewise for eMinds -- except there are also topic leading essays and the whole thing is "free." The purpose of both the WELL and it's offshoot, eMinds, is hanging out -- not thinking and acting responsibly regarding serious issues. GLSaW "belongs" to Bruce Sterling. This means that he started the "topic" and that he apparently feels some responsibility to keep the discussion going. Instead of typing out essays of his own, however, Bruce x-posts from nettime to keep things moving. The conversation then tends to be somewhat less than substantial and, in keeping with the Esalen hot-tubishness of the WELL, seems to be just what the "topic" title indicates, goofy and sniping -- lead by nasty characters like Mark Dery and his equally nasty and sometimes sparring-mate Robert Rossney (host of Technos "conference" over at eMinds). I was drawn-and-quartered (called "loony" and so on) by people who barely know me for sport with me *not* present following Bruce's x-post of my "English Ideology" essay from nettime. One of the participants emailed and urged me to join the list since I was being "debated" in absentia and Richard Barbrook also privately sent me some archived posts. So, I decided to join to confront my "assasins" and to see if I could turn the tables on them by getting a real conversation going and by tweeking people to say to my face what they reveled in doing behind my back. When I arrived the reaction was, "Oh, my God, HE'S here." Believe me, you don't want to see this crap spewed on any form of nettime. The "owner" of GLSaW, Bruce Sterling, never got in touch with me about any of this and he never bothered to intervene in the nastiness, either. So much for courtesy or even professional behavior. I've run lists and I would never put up with this stupidity for a minute. In fact, Bruce seems to do little on the list but x-post from nettime. I was able to coax him out of his cave by challenging him regarding his membership in GBN (which he never felt needed to be revealed despite x-posting my "English Ideology"essay which focuses attention on GBN and the fact that it's right there on the GBN WEBsite) and again over what turns out to be Bruce's great affection for H.G. Wells. Our last exchange was a juvenile I've-read-more-obscure-Wells-than-you fling-fest which is still completely unresolved. I've asked Bruce to publicaly discuss how he might relate Wells' "Open Conspiracy" thesis to the GBN -- which *he* refers to as the "Hippie Trilateral Commission." What is GBN actually doing (consulting to multinationals about the future) and how does it relate to Wells' theme that multinationals would become the backbone of his World State (same effort or different and how?). Frankly, I don't expect Bruce to answer these questions. As a result of my needling the participants about how infantile the exchanges were and my invitation to get Doug Rushkoff to come in to defend himself from similiar attacks (he rolled over and confessed his youthful sins), GLSaW was briefly getting some interesting posts and beginning to collect the "best topic on the WELL" award. This prompted David Hudson to post his enthusiastic review back here on nettime. (I really can't see why David likes any of these guys, BTW). This does, of course, beg the question of whatever else is going on in WELL-ville, but I've been assured that GLSaW is all that the WELL has to offer of a nettime-like character. I have not even bothered to explore the rest of the system since everytime I ask no one can't come up with any good places to go. Lastly, what is really going on here is that a few people, me, David, Bruce, sometimes Pit and some others are in ALL these places most of the time. There really is a larger "conversation" going on here (although Bruce doesn't "converse" much) that is larger than nettime or the WELL or eMinds. It is the thoughts, concerns and activities all of us online and in real life that ultimately matters. If anyone says anything that even *might* be important it *should* be repeated in as many places as is practical -- which is why I notified nettime that WIRED is melting down. I have no problem with people x-posting my essays (and the professionals out there always ask for permission which I always give) and hopefully others will feel the same way. Unlike GLSaW or eMinds or many of the other systems that I have "intervened" into over the years, nettime seems to be a place where people seem to geniunely care about the ideas and their implications. These other places are watering holes where the buffaloes hang out to swap spit with each other (correcting spelling errors along the way). They are much more like the "leaderless groups" designed to amplify conformity and adjust attitudes than places where important ideas and proposals can thrive. I intend to write essays specifically *for* nettime and will take discussion about them wherever that may occur. Let's not get confused by any of this. Nettime is the real deal (so far) and all the rest can only feed off the energy of nettime because they are decidedly *not* the real deal. Thanks for welcoming me into your midst and keep on thinking important thoughts. Mark Stahlman New Media Associates New York City newmedia@mcimail.com -- * distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission * <nettime> is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism, * collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets * more info: majordomo@is.in-berlin.de and "info nettime" in the msg body * URL: http://www.desk.nl/~nettime/ contact: nettime-owner@is.in-berlin.de