Re: <nettime> Never use 1 word where 0 words will do

So Timothy Snyder is usually a good guy to check in on in such cases because he's given a big chunk of his lifetime to studying not only the history of the region (Bloodlands, etc) but the specific mechanisms and logic underpinning Putin's brand of fascism. His latest is here:

https://snyder.substack.com/p/prigozhins-march-on-moscow

...and in fact I think he coined the term "oligarchical fascism" in it -- particularly apt, if so. [Way too long to cut and paste here, and you need to sign in to his Substack, but can opt for the free version.]

As for why Prigozhin turned around, WTF knows. But essentially he was being asked to hand over the keys to his mercenary group, so among other things was there enough money down? We're talking mafia logic here.

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

Best from an Ottawa shrouded in dense dystopian wildfire smoke.

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Subject: Nettime-tmp Digest, Vol 2, Issue 31
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Never use 1 word where 0 words will do (Joseph Rabie)
2. Re: Never use 1 word where 0 words will do (Keith Sanborn)
3. Re: Never use 1 word where 0 words will do (allan siegel)
4. Re: Never use 1 word where 0 words will do (mp)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 18:13:19 +0200
From: Joseph Rabie <joe@overmydeadbody.org>
To: Menno Grootveld <rabotnik@xs4all.nl>
Cc: nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Never use 1 word where 0 words will do
Message-ID: <3CEDBE1A-C9B7-4804-BAF0-32E8BC382544@overmydeadbody.org" target="_blank">3CEDBE1A-C9B7-4804-BAF0-32E8BC382544@overmydeadbody.org>
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Commentary (here in France) suggests that Prigozhin expected many to rally to his "cause". And while it appears that he has some measure of popular support, the Nomenklatura definitely had no intention to come out of the woodwork on his behalf. Which explains the backtracking.

> Le 26 juin 2023 ? 17:49, Menno Grootveld via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> a ?crit :
>
> Well, allright. But please enlighten me on the reason(s) for Prigozhin's backtracking. We have all seen the footage of his troops rapidly approaching Moscow, and of high officials and oligarchs taking off in their private jets.
>
> Op 26-06-2023 om 17:45 schreef Francis Hunger via Nettime-tmp:
>>
>>> So some mysterious and shady deal must have been brokered, not by Lukasheko, but by western intelligence agencies and/or power brokers, who offered Prigozhin a prize he could not refuse.
>>
>> Oh please. This kind of thinking puts way to much agency with the western intelligence services as if the easterners wouldn't be able to broker their own dirty deals. Let's stick for now with what David just said, We know nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Op 26-06-2023 om 17:06 schreef Keith Sanborn via Nettime-tmp:
>>>> Prigozhin is a dead man walking.
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 26, 2023, at 5:11 AM, David Garcia via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?8 hours of wall to wall expert deliberation on the alleged Russian mutiny appears to have reached that rare thing, a shared universal conclusion. "We Know Noooothing"!
>>>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
>>>>> # more info: https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
>>>>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
>>>>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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>>>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
>>>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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>>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>>
> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 12:28:25 -0400
From: Keith Sanborn <mrzero@panix.com>
To: Joseph Rabie <joe@overmydeadbody.org>
Cc: Menno Grootveld <rabotnik@xs4all.nl>,
nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Never use 1 word where 0 words will do
Message-ID: <FE8D858C-CD96-4267-8A6B-B2B1FE5EE048@panix.com" target="_blank">FE8D858C-CD96-4267-8A6B-B2B1FE5EE048@panix.com>
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Putin will not forget or forgive. A crack in the monoculture will be dealt with severely. Putin may bluff and bluster towards the ?West,? but he has no need to at home. Prigozhin will be done away with and once the war in Ukraine is over, those who marched with him towards Moscow will face long jail terms. If they are not simply used as cannon fodder just as Prigozhin used them. But prophecy is a stupid game.

> On Jun 26, 2023, at 12:13 PM, Joseph Rabie via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:
>
> ?Commentary (here in France) suggests that Prigozhin expected many to rally to his "cause". And while it appears that he has some measure of popular support, the Nomenklatura definitely had no intention to come out of the woodwork on his behalf. Which explains the backtracking.
>
>
>
>> Le 26 juin 2023 ? 17:49, Menno Grootveld via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> a ?crit :
>>
>> Well, allright. But please enlighten me on the reason(s) for Prigozhin's backtracking. We have all seen the footage of his troops rapidly approaching Moscow, and of high officials and oligarchs taking off in their private jets.
>>
>> Op 26-06-2023 om 17:45 schreef Francis Hunger via Nettime-tmp:
>>>
>>>> So some mysterious and shady deal must have been brokered, not by Lukasheko, but by western intelligence agencies and/or power brokers, who offered Prigozhin a prize he could not refuse.
>>>
>>> Oh please. This kind of thinking puts way to much agency with the western intelligence services as if the easterners wouldn't be able to broker their own dirty deals. Let's stick for now with what David just said, We know nothing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Op 26-06-2023 om 17:06 schreef Keith Sanborn via Nettime-tmp:
>>>>> Prigozhin is a dead man walking.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 26, 2023, at 5:11 AM, David Garcia via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?8 hours of wall to wall expert deliberation on the alleged Russian mutiny appears to have reached that rare thing, a shared universal conclusion. "We Know Noooothing"!
>>>>>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>>>>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>>>>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
>>>>>>> # more info: https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
>>>>>>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
>>>>>>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>>>>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>>>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>>>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
>>>>>> # more info: https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
>>>>>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
>>>>>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>>>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
>>>>> # more info: https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
>>>>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
>>>>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>>>
>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
>> # more info: https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>
> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 18:31:04 +0200
From: "allan siegel" <allansiegel@internet-mail.org>
To: nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Never use 1 word where 0 words will do
Message-ID: <ddaa8889-1a18-4dc6-add2-5e1d2ce9e313@app.fastmail.com" target="_blank">ddaa8889-1a18-4dc6-add2-5e1d2ce9e313@app.fastmail.com>
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What we do know are the intentions of the US aka NATO et al ( mostly ) and Russia based on statements and actions prior to the Russian/NATO provocations. What might have been a fairly normal military chess game became multi-dimensional. Besides that as per David we know nothing BUT that a diplomatic solution was abandoned a while ago as the US thinks mainly in terms of ?regime change? and fuck the consequences. And despite all the political grandstanding Ukrainian people will suffer the fallout for decades.
Allan

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, at 17:45, Francis Hunger via Nettime-tmp wrote:
>
> > So some mysterious and shady deal must have been brokered, not by
> > Lukasheko, but by western intelligence agencies and/or power brokers,
> > who offered Prigozhin a prize he could not refuse.
>
> Oh please. This kind of thinking puts way to much agency with the
> western intelligence services as if the easterners wouldn't be able to
> broker their own dirty deals. Let's stick for now with what David just
> said, We know nothing.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Op 26-06-2023 om 17:06 schreef Keith Sanborn via Nettime-tmp:
> >> Prigozhin is a dead man walking.
> >>
> >>> On Jun 26, 2023, at 5:11 AM, David Garcia via Nettime-tmp
> >>> <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?8 hours of wall to wall expert deliberation on the alleged Russian
> >>> mutiny appears to have reached that rare thing, a shared universal
> >>> conclusion. "We Know Noooothing"!
> >>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> >>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> >>> # more info:
> >>> https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
> >>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
> >>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> >> # more info:
> >> https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
> >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
> >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > # more info:
> > https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp
> > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
> > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>
> --
> Francis Hunger, Ph.D.
> Researcher at Training The Archive, HMKV Dortmund
>
> Artistic Practice http://www.irmielin.org
> Mastodon https://dair-community.social/@databasecultures
>
> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 19:40:33 +0200
From: mp <mp@aktivix.org>
To: nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Never use 1 word where 0 words will do
Message-ID: <ebd9b18d-f736-2fa7-a5d4-a3c643330af2@aktivix.org" target="_blank">ebd9b18d-f736-2fa7-a5d4-a3c643330af2@aktivix.org>
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On 26/06/2023 17:49, Menno Grootveld via Nettime-tmp wrote:
> Well, allright. But please enlighten me on the reason(s) for Prigozhin's
> backtracking. We have all seen the footage

In a hall of mirrors not everything is what it appears to be. As mere
peasants consuming infotainment at the lowest echelon, witnessing but
by-products of the elite's ill intentions expressed in carefully crafted
and coded messages through multiple layers of distortions, who has a
flippin' clue? Who even wants one?

...
..
.

------------------------------

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End of Nettime-tmp Digest, Vol 2, Issue 31
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Michael Benson

Kinetikon Pictures

michael-benson.net

kinpix2001@gmail.com